I've been running Dragonbane recently, in which you don't even get XP. Instead, at the end of the session you have the _chance_ to level up any skill that you roled a critical (hit or miss) with during the session. The result is that the fighters don't only fight, the wizard doesn't only cast, etc. Combat isn't the default and is instead replaced by interacting with the world in interesting ways that use as many of the characters' skills as possible!
I'm a big fan of that type of reward system. I've started ever so slightly to write down my ideas for my next full game system, and it will be using this type of mechanic, but with a few important tweaks. As you say, it promotes diverse actions, which is great!
This makes me wonder if you could take an existing Skill Point system (where you gain SP per level-up) and add the additional factor that you only get to pump SP into the Skills you used MOST between one level and another... If you want to level-up specific skills, you need to make sure you're using those skills, etc. etc., and if you want to have a choice when you level up, you need to make sure you're doing a diversity of things from one level to the next... No idea if/how it would work in practice, but I'm super curious now about how it could funnel player attention.
Yeah Dragonbane you have to roll to see if you improve which does lead to slower advancement as it gets harder and harder to advance. I think it works but it's really a question of pacing. A guaranteed 1 point improvement in East will lead to a game where charecters grow fast.
Which for the modern trend of fewer sessions is probably a good thing.
I must say though the incentives are also balanced against other factors. Certainly gold for XP can reward “stealth, trickery, negotiation, and clever dungeon navigation” but nobody (especially the DM) likes it when the thief goes solo (an inherent problem with that character class really) and I’ve never known a murder hobo that cared much for negotiation…
As a GM I love it when the thief goes solo. It lets me show off my ability to run multiple things at the same time and I almost always get to add another mark to the dungeons kill count. The Murderhobo who learns that negotiations are a weapon learns when to use them for maximum impact.
I love the idea of XP per skill use, this really turns the game into gambling, where you risk failure and consequences for the reward of XP, and really makes the players weigh risk and reward. Thanks for this new genius idea. Though I'm thinking it might feel punishing in games where dice use is kept to the most critical moments and where players primarily interact with the world through role play. Hence why I use the YZE way of asking questions at the end of the session (Did you X, Y, Z, if yes, get one XP). You can ask whether the players acted according to their personality, but also so much more. This is probably the more holistic approach. But ultimately, there's no single right answer :)
This combo approach reminds me of both Dragonbane and One Shot World (a Dungeonworld hack), which both have variations of XP/progression based on skill use as well as general participation (Did you X, Y, Z this session?).
I love both systems for their simplicity, but also for the fact that they intentionally promote active engagement on the player side.
I got a trick from a friend who as GM at the end of every session would go around the table and ask for one new thing the character learned during the session. If you couldn’t answer, no XP. So rewarded participation, paying attention in session, and in game investigation.
In my upcoming alpine survival horror RPG game the "XP" (1% chance increase on a subset of rolls) is awarded per survived segment of a day. The amount is doubled if you attempted something inspiring/brave in that segment. These brave actions are very risky, forcing critical results only.
I prefer all sorts of systems that incentivize non-violent solutions as a GM and as a player, too.
There is at least one more technique, XP through GM favour, sure occasionally players can directly give each other XP. Usually this will be rather arbitrary, depending on whatever the people at the table consider to be good "roleplay" is.
So true. I already played all the TTRPGs used as examples and see it for inside. The behavior change with the XP mechanics in play.
I'd like to add DCC as milestone, besides the system has a XP for his one, it's very common to use milestones, like, after X quantity of adventures, the players level up.
Also I'm really curious to think about how this kind of thing can be thought as a real world issue. How our rewards change or mold our behaviors.
I think the 8 hour work day is a great example of a real world example. Many jobs pay to for attendance, not necessarily performance. That fosters a mindset of: “I’ll sit out my hours, and 17:00 I’m absolutely out of here in a flash!”
Very true!
I've been running Dragonbane recently, in which you don't even get XP. Instead, at the end of the session you have the _chance_ to level up any skill that you roled a critical (hit or miss) with during the session. The result is that the fighters don't only fight, the wizard doesn't only cast, etc. Combat isn't the default and is instead replaced by interacting with the world in interesting ways that use as many of the characters' skills as possible!
I'm a big fan of that type of reward system. I've started ever so slightly to write down my ideas for my next full game system, and it will be using this type of mechanic, but with a few important tweaks. As you say, it promotes diverse actions, which is great!
This makes me wonder if you could take an existing Skill Point system (where you gain SP per level-up) and add the additional factor that you only get to pump SP into the Skills you used MOST between one level and another... If you want to level-up specific skills, you need to make sure you're using those skills, etc. etc., and if you want to have a choice when you level up, you need to make sure you're doing a diversity of things from one level to the next... No idea if/how it would work in practice, but I'm super curious now about how it could funnel player attention.
I think this a good way to do it (which is how I’m planning on doing it):
1: When you fail a skill test, you mark that skill with a dot or x or similar.
2: Each night when camping/resting, you can improve one of your marked skills by 1.
Simple as that.
Yeah Dragonbane you have to roll to see if you improve which does lead to slower advancement as it gets harder and harder to advance. I think it works but it's really a question of pacing. A guaranteed 1 point improvement in East will lead to a game where charecters grow fast.
Which for the modern trend of fewer sessions is probably a good thing.
Absolutely, the pacing changes drastically with one advancement per day vs once per sessions. I’m aiming for fairly quick advancement though :)
I must say though the incentives are also balanced against other factors. Certainly gold for XP can reward “stealth, trickery, negotiation, and clever dungeon navigation” but nobody (especially the DM) likes it when the thief goes solo (an inherent problem with that character class really) and I’ve never known a murder hobo that cared much for negotiation…
As a GM I love it when the thief goes solo. It lets me show off my ability to run multiple things at the same time and I almost always get to add another mark to the dungeons kill count. The Murderhobo who learns that negotiations are a weapon learns when to use them for maximum impact.
I love the idea of XP per skill use, this really turns the game into gambling, where you risk failure and consequences for the reward of XP, and really makes the players weigh risk and reward. Thanks for this new genius idea. Though I'm thinking it might feel punishing in games where dice use is kept to the most critical moments and where players primarily interact with the world through role play. Hence why I use the YZE way of asking questions at the end of the session (Did you X, Y, Z, if yes, get one XP). You can ask whether the players acted according to their personality, but also so much more. This is probably the more holistic approach. But ultimately, there's no single right answer :)
This combo approach reminds me of both Dragonbane and One Shot World (a Dungeonworld hack), which both have variations of XP/progression based on skill use as well as general participation (Did you X, Y, Z this session?).
I love both systems for their simplicity, but also for the fact that they intentionally promote active engagement on the player side.
Happy it inspired! 😊
I got a trick from a friend who as GM at the end of every session would go around the table and ask for one new thing the character learned during the session. If you couldn’t answer, no XP. So rewarded participation, paying attention in session, and in game investigation.
In my upcoming alpine survival horror RPG game the "XP" (1% chance increase on a subset of rolls) is awarded per survived segment of a day. The amount is doubled if you attempted something inspiring/brave in that segment. These brave actions are very risky, forcing critical results only.
I prefer all sorts of systems that incentivize non-violent solutions as a GM and as a player, too.
There is at least one more technique, XP through GM favour, sure occasionally players can directly give each other XP. Usually this will be rather arbitrary, depending on whatever the people at the table consider to be good "roleplay" is.
So true. I already played all the TTRPGs used as examples and see it for inside. The behavior change with the XP mechanics in play.
I'd like to add DCC as milestone, besides the system has a XP for his one, it's very common to use milestones, like, after X quantity of adventures, the players level up.
Also I'm really curious to think about how this kind of thing can be thought as a real world issue. How our rewards change or mold our behaviors.
I think the 8 hour work day is a great example of a real world example. Many jobs pay to for attendance, not necessarily performance. That fosters a mindset of: “I’ll sit out my hours, and 17:00 I’m absolutely out of here in a flash!”
This is a real world issue. Search up the Wells Fargo account sales scandal.